Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails
THIS IS AN OUTDATED OVERFLOW SITE. PLEASE GO TO
contrailscience.com
UPDATE – After geting a new photo of the trail, Liam Bahneman told me he was now siding with it being his second choice, UPS902. Having reviewed the evidence, I fully agree that UPS902 is a much better fit than AWE808, especially when viewed against the composite photo.

UPS902 Turns out to be a much better fit
Note to the media – since this was almost certainly Flight UPS902 from Hawaii to Ontario, why not have a camera crew somewhere in the vicinity (does not need to be exact, or a chopper), next time the flight is scheduled to go by, and if the weather is right you’ll see the same trail again. (or check the web cam)
Note to everyone else – If you have photos of the Nov 8 contrail from any angle, please email them to uncinus@gmail.com
[This post was originally from Jan 19th, 2010. I’ve updated it with information about the “Mystery Missile” contrail of Nov 8, 2010, at the bottom of this post. Clearly it’s the same thing]
An interesting contrail cropped up off the coast of San Clemente, Orange County, California on December 31st 2009. The curious shape led some people to think it’s a missile launch, which it does kind of look like (all taken from San Clemente)

"Missile-like" contrail. Note this is the Dec 31st contrail, not the Nov 8th CBS one. That's at the bottom of the post.
This kind of contrail confusion is nothing new. This article appeared in The San Mateo Times, Jan 12, 1950:
Here’s some more shots of the same contrail. Click these for larger images:

The idea that it’s a missile launch comes from three misconceptions. Firstly that the trail is vertical – it’s not, it’s a horizontal trail, at around 32,000 feet (about six miles). It’s the same as this:

This contrail is no more vertical than the road is, and nor are the power lines at 45 degrees. Everything is horizontal – it’s the just the angle you are viewing it from. All of these show horizontal contrails.
Secondly there’s the misconception of direction, that it’s flying away from the viewer, when it’s actually flying towards the viewer. This is because the “base” of the contrail seems wider than the tip. Perspective tells the brain that this mean the base is closer. But actually you can see the base has been greatly spread by the wind. Since it’s so far away the effects of perspective are greatly diminished, meaning the actual width of the contrail is what is creating the illusion. Imagine if a plane with a 100 mile long spreading contrail were coming towards you; what would it look like? It would look exactly like this.
Thirdly there’s the idea that it goes all the way down to the ground. Now that might be true if the Earth was flat, but the Earth is round, and things go beneath the horizon eventually, no matter how high they are. A plane 200 miles away but five miles up is always below the horizon. If the horizon is raised (as it is here, with Catalina Island), then the distance is less. Here’s some math:

This diagram is not to scale, but the math is the same regardless. The solid curved line is the surface of the earth. The dot at the top is San Clemente. The little triangle is Catalina. “d” is the distance to Catalina (d=35 miles). “c” the amount of Catalina that is visible above the horizon (c=0.05 miles, really a bit more, but let’s be conservative). “a” is the altitude of the plane, (a = 6 miles). “r” is the radius of the earth (r=3963 miles).
The green wavy line is the contrail. Notice it’s at a fixed height above the surface of the earth, and is going directly towards the OC.
The point labeled (0,0) is the center of the earth. (0,0) means X=0, Y=0, where X is horizontal and Y is vertical. What we want to know is how far away the plane is, the value x. We do this with cartesian geometry, noting that the lowest visible point of the trail is at the intersection of the dotted line, which is a circle of radius (r+a), hence the equation x^2 + y^2 = (r+a)^2 and the line labeled “sight line”, which is has the equation y=r+x*c/d. Combining these equations to solve for x yields a quadratic equation, which we can solve with Wolfram Alpha:
intersection of (y=r+x*c/d) and (x^2+y^2 = (r+a)^2)
and with the real numbers:
intersection of (y=r+x*c/d) and (x^2+y^2 = (r+a)^2) where a=6 and d=35 and c=0.05 and r=3963
Which gives x = 212, meaning that the bottom of the contrail is around 200 miles away. So if the front of the contrail (the actual aircraft) is somewhere above and behind catalina, then that means the contrail is over 100 miles long. At 500 mph, that means it could have formed in 12-15 minutes, which seems consistent with the descriptions in the discussion above. (feel free to play around with the numbers there to see the affect of various assumptions)
Looking at the satellite image for noon on that day (12/31/2009) and the next day (1/1/2010), we see contrails in approximately the same position, and around 100 miles long, showing it’s quite possible, given the right weather.
Really what makes this odd looking is the position of the people taking the photo. Obviously the same contrail would be visible all the way up the coast, however the only people who though it was really odd were those who were lined up with it, in OC. People in LA would see a dramatic looking contrail, but more obviously just a contrail, so less worthy of writing to the newspaper about. I actually saw it myself, but was in a car, and could only get a poor cell-phone snapshot:

A cell-phone photo I took of the New Year Eve contrail, from an angle that shows it's just a jet contrail
That was from somewhere around San Diamas, on the 210 freeway, so I’m looking South West, probably around 45 degree the the contrail, which you can only see a bit of behind the Home Depot sign. It looked quite impressive at the time. But there are other photos of it from various other angles which show it’s contrail-ness more clearly, here’s one taken from Santa Monica (click photo for original):

The actual New Years Eve contrail, viewed from Santa Monica. This is what the CBS "missile" contrail would have looked like to most people in LA, which is why nobody reported it.
You can see from this angle (and taken a bit earlier) it looks far less interesting, as it’s very apparent it’s just a contrail.
Scott Methvin sent in these two images which shows the contrail in all it’s missile-like glory, but from a better angle.

Same contrail slightly later.
Here’s another angle of the New Year’s Eve contrail, this view is from Corona del Mar, about 20 miles Northeast of San Clemente:
Here’s a similar photo (of a different contrail, obviously) on the same day at the other side of the country:
Here’s some more contrails at sunset (From a very nice set of contrail photos), note how they look exactly the same as sections of the New Year contrail:
[Update Nov 9 2010]
Now here’s the one everyone is actually talking about. From Monday Nov 8th 2010, this time it video taken a local CBS news crew in a helicopter, so they were able to zoom in.
Note it’s pretty much in the same location. Note also it’s not exactly moving at missile speed. Note also it’s practically identical to the photos of plane contrails, above.
And once again millions of people failed to notice, because from any other angle it looked like what it was, a contrail, from a plane. Must be a slow news day, as this went all the way up to Jim Miklaszewski asking people at the pentagon about it.
There are occasional flashes of light, which I think are reflections of the sun off a flat surface on the plane. There’s also portions of the video where a bit of the trail behind the plane seems to glow. I think thats just the last rays of the setting sun lighting that portion of the trail. See Scott Methvin’s photos, above for how the trail can be oddly lit from minute to minute.
Here’s a better video. You can see after about 0:50 it’s out of the contrail-persisting region of air, and is just leaving a short contrail. It’s also now out of the sun. It looks exactly like the short contrails of a jet coming towards the camera with perspective foreshortening. The camera crew lost it in the darkness shortly after that.
The most likely flight is US Aiways flight 808 from Hawaii to Phoenix.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE808
I snapped the above web image at around 5:05PM today, about the same time as the video was taken yesterday.
Here’s the actual track from the 8th:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE808/history/20101108/1955Z/PHNL/KPHX
And here’s a photo I took (Nov 9th) two minutes earlier from Santa Monica. I think it’s the same flight, just 24 hours later. Note that the angle is exactly the same as the Dec 31st contrail that produced the original “missile” story.

Contrail from flight 808
Obviously the video would have to have been taken from way off to the right in this photo (I’m looking South West). The chopper would have been somewhere like Torrance.
[Update again]
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/cameraman-who-filmed-mystery-missile-describes-spectacular-sight.html
The cameraman reports:
Cameraman Gil Leyvas shot video of a luminous point hurtling through the sky followed by a long vapor trail. He said he was aboard the television station’s helicopter shooting footage of the sunset over the ocean about 5:15 p.m when he noticed the spiral-shaped vapor trail and zoomed in to get a better look.
The onboard camera showed a plume twisting up from the horizon and narrowing as it climbed into the sky near Catalina Island, about 35 miles west of Los Angeles, he said.
“Whatever it was, it was spinning up into the sky kind of like a spiral,” and was easy to distinguish from condensation trails from jets, he said. “It was quite a sight to see. It was spectacular.”
I suspect what he saw (which can only be what is on the video, I’d like to see it in HD) is the twisting of the contrails, this can be quite dramatic, especially from such a head-on angle. See this video of a similar perspective, and note the swirling twists in the contrails directly behind the jet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl6iR7w7a_Q
Here’s a grab from that video, showing the twist, and how it as accented by low sun.
Liem Bahneman gives this excellent description of how flight AWE808 exactly matches the observations, including producing a near identical contrail the next day (which I also photographed, from Santa Monica, above)
And here’s some excellent points from a real rocket scientist, posting as “Michael”:
I’d like to add to all the evidence above that it was just a jet, because the plume is nothing like a rocket plume to the trained eye. I was a rocket safety inspector for 3 years, have seen countless launches and failures, and have a master’s degree in Astronautical Engineering. Here’s why it’s not a rocket:
It’s too slow (<— biggest reason).
There’s no engine flare.
There’s no expansion of the plume (as the chamber pressure exceeds the atmospheric pressure more and more during flight).
There’s no staging event.
There’s no sunset striations across the plume (which would look like this: http://tinyurl.com/2vklwu5).
In the wide shot there’s two contrails (off each wing!) instead of one.
The plume at the plane is twirling in different directions (very un-rocket-like).
The plume at the plane is twirling too much — that only happens in the case of a motor burn-through, which is a failure mode, meaning it would be seconds from exploding if it were a rocket.
The wind-blown plume is all wrong, vertical plumes go through several different wind shear layers, which makes it look very different than what the video shows.
The apparent direction of the jet is a bit of an illusion, as the trail is greatly distorted by the winds at altitude, which can also vary greatly from place to place. At 37,000 feet the wind can easily be in the 50-100 mph range.
Richard Warren of Los Angeles shot four close-up photos of the trail from a fixed position in Lon Beach. I’ve combined them here into one photo, where you can see the trail move with the wind, and the actual path that the plane takes is much more obviously passing to the south of Long Beach, matching flight 808.

And the fact that it’s a plane is way more apparent once it stops making a contrail (which is due to it moving between two regions of air – it’s colder and/or more humid out to sea than inland)
Richard took a fifth shot at a wider angle that shows the greater context. The jet is still visible as a dark speck (it’s still got a very short contrail). There’s also a very impressive crepuscular “edge” shadow that’s probably cast by part of the contrail that is over the horizon.

711 Comments
Trackbacks
- The Unwanted Blog » Blog Archive » It’s Just A Friggen’ Airliner
- Missile ou avion (vidéo) « Etrange et Insolite
- Pentagon one-liner, cute. Missile was a ‘jetliner’ – probably from Airplane 2 « Rising Stars
- Mystery Missile...what is your take?
- Anonymous
- Mystery Missile Off California Coast — ExposeTheMedia.com
- More on the Mystery Missile – and a Poll! « Public Secrets
Comments are closed.















You’re totally missing the obvious. Flight AWE808 is a Boeing 757, twin engine wing mounted. If it was this aircraft we would be able to see *TWO* contrails!
Nice try, though.
Almost certainly a jet, although its very striking (and very worrisome if not — one of our classified test launches would be done farther out at sea out of sight.). I saw a fairly similar one (jet contrail) today, Wednesday, in the evening looking west from Mobile, AL, over land.
A few comments in response to various points/questions:
Planes don’t just reflect sunlight from their windows — they can also reflect from the much, much larger flat-ish surface of the wings’ underside, depending how new/shiny the paintjob is (or clean bare aluminum). I’ve seen that very distinctly many, many times.
As to sun and shadows on contrails — its just like clouds –the denser part is opaque and looks dark/shadowed on side away from the sun, the more diffuse parts aremore translucent with some sunlght pentrating — the video seems to fit in that the part closer to the ‘rocket’ is darker.
Something no one has mentioned is that very clear air, over distances ranging out far enough the earths curvature is significant, can introduce an optical effect (actual refraction, not an ‘illusion’,) where the view along the path closest to the horizon — from originating at high altitude *well beyond your local horizon — is oddly sharp while at the same time ‘squished’ vertically, even magnified a bit, compared to the apparently ‘higher’ part of the contrail which is actually much closer to the observer, straight line. So the contrail being more widely dispersed farther behind the vehicle is not the only contributor to it being wider at the base — an optical distortion due to the light passing at a different angle thru more layers of atmosphere with differing indices of refraction is at work too.
As to what is supposedly some sort of engine burnout or throttle down — you can see plenty of high altitude controls that have a bit of abroken/dashed line appearance as the plane pases thru areas of varying temp & humidity, even at same altitude.
newscaper
You seem to understand all of the science and optical illusions.
So why do you forget, or shall I say, ignore the speed of the vehicle issue?
Oh Larrybud,
How far was the camera from the “flying object”?
See how I get such a laugh from all of your nonsense?
Please, Both, or should I say, ALL of you continue with your sophomoric arguments?
You give me so much laughter! Thank you! 😉
A missing key piece of information that this author states as such is the velocity of the flying object. However nobody bothered to calculate it at all. You have the video, if your horizontal trajectory hypothesis is correct, you should be able to measure this velocity and this should match that of a plane.
North Korea has atleast 35 subs and four whiskey class submarines that are capable of launching guided missiles. If it was the North Koreans it explains why our military doesnt even want to attempt to explain it. If the American public knew that a North Korean Sub got within 35 miles of the LA coast and test fired a missile heads would roll.
The timing of this launch is not a coincidence since the pres is visiting South Korea, its a show of force and demonstrates our vulnerability.
I capitulate. I hear and obey. Obviously a contrail/chemtrail. What was I thinking?
Interesting I found this site. I live in PHX and distinctly remember seeing a very bold, distinct and long non-dissipating contrail on the evening of Nov 8th. While It was immediately obvious to me it was a plane contrail, I recall it being very distinctive due to its persistence, clear conditions, and fading reddish/orange setting sun. I don’t recall the time of the sighting but I do recall see it for about 20 minutes before it was “overhead” my location in Phoenix. I don’t believe it was the Cactus flight from PHNL described on the site because I observed the plane still at cruise alt as it continued Eastbound past my location.
What it does state is that the atmospheric conditions were “right” for this type of event as there was evidence of older contrails that had persisted for a long time as well. I’m really sorry now that I didn’t take a picture of it!
MOORE FOOD FOR THOUGHT !! – As far as the “most plausable” angle of view theory goes… The object in the original video may also be moving away from the observer – giving the slow moving/no flame view to… but to admit that would mean it could be a missile/Rocket and then the goverment/millitary would be compelled to give answers. THAT AINT GONNA HAPPEN !!
There are now alot of pro speculations pointing both ways and alot of good opinions, expertise, and experiance. But id be very suspicious of the media news and how they oreintate/manipulate storeys also.
It could be EATHER !! – ITS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER
If its a missile and its sensative info – they aint gonna say!!! if its a Jet – they are gonna let you all go crazzy as they all have better things to do!!! ; ) 😉
FOOD FOR THOUGHT !!
Though the video time is very short, the magnification is considerable which adds causes distortion and foreshortening problems that distort the con trail’ signature. However, the high magnification of the video which shows a silver object ahead of the trail would reveal a typical pattern of multiple exhausts from a twin, tri or quad jet near the trail root and I don’t see this. Maybe it’s not a missile but how about a military jet on extended afterburner burn or a scram jet or ram jet? In any event unless someone comes up with a demonstrable explanation for the lack of multi-engine evidence at the root of the con trail, it’s not a commercial jet.
This just keep getting funnier with every new post! 😉
I just can’t take you all anymore, I need to stop laughing for a while…
My stomach is killing me, but thank you so much for your inane hilarity!
It just has to be a missile…. everyone denies it, and gives obvious reasons why….
I will just go and laugh more and more! 😉 Thank you again for entertaining me!
Hey Billy Bob,
“You are saying, that you can look at the video, and not see that this is way, way too slow
to be an airplane?”, what the hell is that supposed to mean? It’s a blimp with a smoke box or did you mistype your sentence? Glass houses, jerk off.
Bob Knob, You are TOTALLY correct. Thank you for pointing out my mistake! 😉
Should have been a missile! ;0 I am not so small as to never admit a mistake!
But just a comment, if you don’t mind! Change your name before you call someone
what your name implies!
Oh gross, you probably like that don’t you? ooooooooooooooo
Well talk about going back to grade school. That is my name Robert Knob – like Knob Creek. At least I wasn’t named after my Aunt Mom and Uncle Dad.
It is embarrassing and dismaying to see such an educated person as “Michael” — who says, above, that he has a master’s degree in astronautical engineering — making such elementary mistakes as these:
1. “There’s no sunset striations across the plume”.
2. “There’s two contrails … instead of one”.
He should, of course, have written:
3. “There are no sunset striations across the plume”.
4. “There are two contrails … instead of one”.
This elementary school level of illiteracy in an advanced rocket scientist is sickening.
People are provided with facts yet they still insist its a missile. Reading these comments just proves this country is full of idiots. I’m guessing you people believed the person in that Charlie Chaplin film was a time traveler, talking on a cell phone. Think its time for me to move or maybe take NASA up on their Mars offer.
А что тута такого? Ну увидили нечто… Что сразу же пугаться надо??? Значит совесть у кого то не чиста)
Russian Transalion = “YOU MISSED, YOU AMERICAN BASTERDS”
Hahaha Lmao!!!
an airplane.? stupidity runs rampant…
Just as spiffy and DvD say above, the NOTAM for the area BANS aircraft from this part of the sky (so its not an airline contrail!), as there was to be military activity scheduled for that very area at that very time (remember NOTAM timings are in zulu time). The trail also has a severe kink in, just exactly like sub launched rockets do, as well as being too thick/solid to be an airliner vapour trail.
I am sure many of you are convinced it is an air liner, but just say which one it was (actually was on that very day, and not just usually there at that time), being in mind all airliners were barred from this part of the sky at this time…….Due to a military test taking place!
I served aboard US nuclear powered submarines from 1979 – 1983, as well, I tested Tomahawk Cruise Missle (TCM) software from 1983 – 1987. The primary testing ground on the west coast was indeed in the vacinity of the latest ‘missle’ sighting. Whilst it certainly is not a TCM, I believe it is the testing of a ICBM, possibly from an Ohio class trident submarine, those that are based in Bangor, Washington. A TCM does not leave a contrail, but an ICBM would. Noting the arc of departure, I would say it is what I have stated above.
Should this sighting be the result of a foreign navy, someone will pay for the embaraasment this has caused the USA. Worse, if this was a foreign submarine, this would be a serious security indication that we cannot defend our shores.
Aircraft contrail, not missle for the simple reason the contrail did not spread out and reflect sunlight off the myraid of chemical compounds found in rocket exhaust giving a display of iridecents in the lingering light of sunset. The contrail of rocket launches from Vandenburg disapate in a colorful trail that quickly begins to spread out in a zig-zag pattern due to the varing wind patterns at the varing altitudes, thus showing acending altitude direction. Jet contrails spread out more evenly since the jet flys at a sustained altitude and the wind patter remains the same in this horizontal trajectory.
The missile theory is nothing new and a search of the files will show this is a slow news day. I have seen this many times from many locations in SoCal.
The things you need to worry about are the many sightings by pilots of airliners of fast flying dart shaped black objects passing through the inbound flight corridor from Arizona decending into the LAX airspace. They leave no radar track but if you listen to the air traffic channels you can hear the pilots and ground controllers chat about them. Flight 125 heavy, inbound, roger, no track, visual only…
RB, how in the world have you not noticed that the notice covered the day after the 24-hour news cycle grabbed hold of this like a puppy’s chew toy? Is it because you saw at the tail end that it says “CREATED 08 NOV”, is that it?
We’ll thank you and you’ll thank yourself if you promise to read things more carefully from now on.
Да не ссыте, наши это угарнули. Проверили вашу бдительность, а вы сразу в ступор)) Хоть голыми руками бери))
@JP
For someone who served aboard a nuclear powered submarine, you sure are dumb.
Thanks for serving though.
I have an idea for a captcha challenge-response question that could be posed before new visitors were allowed to post here:
How do you pronounce the word “nuclear”?
1) new-cue-lar, as if it were spelled “nucular”
2) new-clee-are, as if it were spelled the way it’s spelled
You’d have swap the number 1 and 2 answers randomly so people couldn’t cheat by telling their friends, and you’d need to grandfather in the existing commenters, I suppose. That’s not as bad as it sounds, because most of them seem to visit just once, not read the article at all, look at the colorful pictures for a bit, post a bit of nonsense that they copied from another site or, in a few cases, managed to squeeze out of their own noggins, and then never come back to read the helpful replies.
These do not look like constrails. They look like chemtrails. Google the words ” What in the world are they spraying”
Oddly, I have a fierce hankering to Google what sort of condition might cause pervasive paranoid delusions, suspiciousness, and an unhealthy distrust of other people. I know that sounds like one of those Googlewhack phrases where you get just one result (or none at all), but I’ve got this hunch that somewhere, sometime, someone may have run into this kind of thing.
@Cheryl
Wrong again. Thanks for playing.
Good job, Uncinus; excellent work.
_Jim
.
Nice article. Nice logic and well documented. *thumbs up*
I’m sorry for you, Uncinus, that you have to live out there in the US with all those people who so gladly display their lack of thinking logically and visualizing situations in 3D.
ROFL at all the people up here who just can’t seem to separate fact from fiction. =D
But! The beautifully illuminated jet contrail even made the evening news on TV out here in the Netherlands, so I guess you people out there have a *flare* (pun intended) for dramatics.
I know my country, my people and I myself have a lot of work to do on improving things. But this is most certainly one of those moments in which I would quote Mr. Bennet from the excellent rendition of “Pride and Prejudice” by the BBC in 1995: “Well, well, what do we live for but to make fun of our neighbours and, in our turn, be laughed at ourselves?”
Thanks for brightening my day with this excellent site. =)
I certainly enjoyed this.
Have a nice day and following years in which this contrail will, most likely, turn into another one of the Great Hilarious Mysteries Of Ridiculously Simple Every Day Events.
=)
Chris
The Netherlands
(Europe, North Sea, near Great Britain, for those of you who don’t know where to locate my country on a map.)
Bob Barker said: Time to leave this POS country and migrate to Europe.
You first Bob. Good riddance to idiotic rubbish.
Everyone keeps referencing the video but they keep forgetting one important thing. Except for the helicopter crew, there isn’t one eyewitness to this event. A normal sunset missile launch from Vandenburgh can be seen in Phoenix. If there was an actual missile launch 35 miles off of LA, it would have been seen by millions of people from San Diego to Monterey. Add to that the fact that it was reported live on tv yet non of the thousands watching the news thought it was interesting enough to go out and look. No interviews, no pictures, no videos. Nothing, zip, nada. Reporters haven’t interviewed one person who witnessed it. This is Hollywood and no “15 minute of fame” seeker rushing to tell their story. The reason for this is there was nothing to see in person but a jet leaving a contrail coming from over the ocean heading inland towards Phoenix. The only people who are claiming this is a missile are people who didn’t witness anything. This event reminds me of the 1930 radio broadcast that freaked people out by convincing listeners that aliens had landed on earth. It just goes to show that people can be easily convinced of anything.
So… “sheeple”, for your own safety, please step away from the edge before you get hurt.
Why didn’t the chopper hear the plane going overhead? Because the roar of a chopper your’e sitting in would drown out the hum of a high flying plane.
Why didn’t they see it? Planes become harder to see as they enter that dusk region before the sky is dark enough to make the lights stand out, and after the sunlight has left the sides).
Why did the military not say it was a plane? I’m guessing the conversation went something like this:
“There was a missile launched — where was it going and what was it’s destination?”
“We didn’t launch a missile and have no records of someone else launching a missile.”
“Someone launched a missile and you didn’t notice it?”
“That’s like saying we didn’t see a plane fly over the pentagon, if a missile was launched we would know. No missile was launched.”
“So what was it then?”
“Hell if I know – probably a plane – go away!”
This whole thing reminds me of a Sherlock Holmes story where people assume things and see the world through that assumption. My guess is no one is speaking up about this (and it will quietly die in the media) because it’s embarrassing.
Bob Barker and others don’t seem to realize that offering a well-deserved smackdown to people who espouse theories that are patently and over-the-top delusional and those who make grandiose scientific pronouncements while simultaneously demonstrating they know nothing of various scientific areas is quite a different thing from the simple ridiculing of conspiracy theorists.
That said, I have to say that the “North Korean sub-launched missile that’s so slow you might think it’s a jet because they’re vewy, vewy sneaky fewwows” idea sounds like an excellent basis for a future episode of “South Park.” I propose they do Kim Jong-il as Elmer Fudd as Humphrey Bogart in “The Caine Mutiny.”
Taken from another website: Yeah, put the following coordinates into Google Maps and zoom all the way in:
33.26427,-119.539066
That bright white thing inside the square is a twin-arm launcher. Wiki “RIM-2 Terrier” for a nice picture of one. Capable of launching, uh say, a sounding/target rocket. Now enter the following:
33.248636,-119.522447
See all those “golf balls”. Tracking radars positioned to look downrange (actually, heading west out to sea).
And some folks still think it’s an airplane? What’s truly remarkable is the Government has to B.S. us in the face of all this photographic evidence there’s a launch facility right under the rocket trail. Sad
Bob Barker, what do you make of the fact that there was an identical contrail the next day, in the same place, at the same time flight 808 flew over?
IMO the Nov.9 contrail looks nothing like the Nov.8 Chemtrail.
Listen, this is absurd. We have all seen airplane contrails; Nov.8 was a not a contrail.
The smoke is WAY to thick. No optical illusion there. I’m not a conspiracy type of guy, but I’m also not stupid nor naive. The US government has always lied to its public, I can pull up numerous examples if you like. This would not be the first time nor will it be the last.
The question is who are you and why are you defending your argument so strongly? Who do you work for? Who pays you?
Contrail-science? Really?
Why would they need to lie about this though? IF they were going to lie, why not just say “it was just a test/training.”? Why give people the fuel of complete denial? Surely if it was really something they knew about they could do better than “uh we don’t know what it was.”
Bob, contrails are not made of smoke. They are basically clouds. What you are seeing is a 50+ mile long contrail, in ideal contrail formation conditions, that has been spread sideways by the wind.
Again, how come a very similar contrail was in the same place the next day?
Yer all wrong! It was a missle driven by the old Stig – they needed a spectacular way to get rid of him. Watch the next episode of Top Gear for the full story.
Jim
“I’m also not stupid nor naive.”
Dunning-Kruger effect — you are too stupid to realize how stupid you are.
The apparent direction of the jet is a bit of an illusion, as the trail is greatly distorted by the winds at altitude, which can also vary greatly from place to place. At 37,000 feet the wind can easily be in the 50-100 mph range.
Richard Warren of Los Angeles shot four close-up photos of the trail from a fixed position in Lon Beach. I’ve combined them here into one photo, where you can see the trail move with the wind, and the actual path that the plane takes is much more obviously passing to the south of Long Beach, matching flight 808.

And the fact that it’s a plane is way more apparent once it stops making a contrail (which is due to it moving between two regions of air – it’s colder and/or more humid out to sea than inland)
Richard took a fifth shot at a wider angle that shows the greater context. The jet is still visible as a dark speck (it’s still got a very short contrail). There’s also a very impressive crepuscular “edge” shadow that’s probably cast by part of the contrail that is over the horizon.

“The question is who are you and why are you defending your argument so strongly? Who do you work for? Who pays you? ”
Couldn’t the same question be asked of you, Bob? Some of us are irrationally compelled to respond to dolts like you.
“The US government has always lied to its public, I can pull up numerous examples if you like.”
Numerous examples cannot prove that they ALWAYS lie, you imbecile.
“This would not be the first time nor will it be the last. ”
Nor any in between, cretin.