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November 9, 2010 / Mick

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails


THIS IS AN OUTDATED OVERFLOW SITE. PLEASE GO TO
contrailscience.com

UPDATEAfter geting a new photo of the trail, Liam Bahneman told me he was now siding with it being his second choice, UPS902.  Having reviewed the evidence, I fully agree that UPS902 is a much better fit than AWE808, especially when viewed against the composite photo.

UPS902 Turns out to be a much better fit

Note to the media – since this was almost certainly Flight UPS902 from Hawaii to Ontario, why not have a camera crew somewhere in the vicinity (does not need to be exact, or a chopper), next time the flight is scheduled to go by, and if the weather is right you’ll see the same trail again. (or check the web cam)

Note to everyone else – If you have photos of the Nov 8 contrail from any angle, please email them to uncinus@gmail.com

[This post was originally from Jan 19th, 2010.  I’ve updated it with information about the “Mystery Missile” contrail of Nov 8, 2010, at the bottom of this post.  Clearly it’s the same thing]

An interesting contrail cropped up off the coast of San Clemente, Orange County, California on December 31st 2009. The curious shape led some people to think it’s a missile launch, which it does kind of look like (all taken from San Clemente)

"Missile-like" contrail. Note this is the Dec 31st contrail, not the Nov 8th CBS one. That's at the bottom of the post.

This kind of contrail confusion is nothing new. This article appeared in The San Mateo Times, Jan 12, 1950:

Here’s some more shots of the same contrail. Click these for larger images:

The idea that it’s a missile launch comes from three misconceptions. Firstly that the trail is vertical – it’s not, it’s a horizontal trail, at around 32,000 feet (about six miles). It’s the same as this:

This contrail is no more vertical than the road is, and nor are the power lines at 45 degrees. Everything is horizontal – it’s the just the angle you are viewing it from. All of these show horizontal contrails.

Secondly there’s the misconception of direction, that it’s flying away from the viewer, when it’s actually flying towards the viewer. This is because the “base” of the contrail seems wider than the tip. Perspective tells the brain that this mean the base is closer. But actually you can see the base has been greatly spread by the wind. Since it’s so far away the effects of perspective are greatly diminished, meaning the actual width of the contrail is what is creating the illusion. Imagine if a plane with a 100 mile long spreading contrail were coming towards you; what would it look like? It would look exactly like this.

Thirdly there’s the idea that it goes all the way down to the ground. Now that might be true if the Earth was flat, but the Earth is round, and things go beneath the horizon eventually, no matter how high they are. A plane 200 miles away but five miles up is always below the horizon. If the horizon is raised (as it is here, with Catalina Island), then the distance is less. Here’s some math:

This diagram is not to scale, but the math is the same regardless. The solid curved line is the surface of the earth. The dot at the top is San Clemente. The little triangle is Catalina. “d” is the distance to Catalina (d=35 miles). “c” the amount of Catalina that is visible above the horizon (c=0.05 miles, really a bit more, but let’s be conservative). “a” is the altitude of the plane, (a = 6 miles). “r” is the radius of the earth (r=3963 miles).

The green wavy line is the contrail. Notice it’s at a fixed height above the surface of the earth, and is going directly towards the OC.

The point labeled (0,0) is the center of the earth. (0,0) means X=0, Y=0, where X is horizontal and Y is vertical. What we want to know is how far away the plane is, the value x. We do this with cartesian geometry, noting that the lowest visible point of the trail is at the intersection of the dotted line, which is a circle of radius (r+a), hence the equation x^2 + y^2 = (r+a)^2 and the line labeled “sight line”, which is has the equation y=r+x*c/d. Combining these equations to solve for x yields a quadratic equation, which we can solve with Wolfram Alpha:

intersection of (y=r+x*c/d) and (x^2+y^2 = (r+a)^2)

and with the real numbers:

intersection of (y=r+x*c/d) and (x^2+y^2 = (r+a)^2) where a=6 and d=35 and c=0.05 and r=3963

Which gives x = 212, meaning that the bottom of the contrail is around 200 miles away. So if the front of the contrail (the actual aircraft) is somewhere above and behind catalina, then that means the contrail is over 100 miles long. At 500 mph, that means it could have formed in 12-15 minutes, which seems consistent with the descriptions in the discussion above. (feel free to play around with the numbers there to see the affect of various assumptions)

Looking at the satellite image for noon on that day (12/31/2009) and the next day (1/1/2010), we see contrails in approximately the same position, and around 100 miles long, showing it’s quite possible, given the right weather.

Really what makes this odd looking is the position of the people taking the photo. Obviously the same contrail would be visible all the way up the coast, however the only people who though it was really odd were those who were lined up with it, in OC. People in LA would see a dramatic looking contrail, but more obviously just a contrail, so less worthy of writing to the newspaper about. I actually saw it myself, but was in a car, and could only get a poor cell-phone snapshot:

A cell-phone photo I took of the New Year Eve contrail, from an angle that shows it's just a jet contrail

That was from somewhere around San Diamas, on the 210 freeway, so I’m looking South West, probably around 45 degree the the contrail, which you can only see a bit of behind the Home Depot sign. It looked quite impressive at the time.  But  there are other photos of it from various other angles which show it’s contrail-ness more clearly, here’s one taken from Santa Monica (click photo for original):

The actual New Years Eve contrail, viewed from Santa Monica. This is what the CBS "missile" contrail would have looked like to most people in LA, which is why nobody reported it.

You can see from this angle (and taken a bit earlier) it looks far less interesting, as it’s very apparent it’s just a contrail.

Scott Methvin sent in these two images which shows the contrail in all it’s missile-like glory, but from a better angle.

The Dec 31st contrail, from Laguna Beach

Same contrail slightly later.

Here’s another angle of the New Year’s Eve contrail, this view is from Corona del Mar, about 20 miles Northeast of San Clemente:

Another angle on the New Years Eve contrail. See, it's all about perspective.

Here’s a similar photo (of a different contrail, obviously) on the same day at the other side of the country:

Not a missile launch.

Here’s some more contrails at sunset (From a very nice set of contrail photos), note how they look exactly the same as sections of the New Year contrail:

Obviously not missiles. But look at sections of the trails.

Not a missile launch, in Michigan.

[Update Nov 9 2010]

Now here’s the one everyone is actually talking about.  From Monday Nov 8th 2010, this time it video taken a local CBS news crew in a helicopter, so they were able to zoom in.

Jet contrail, misidentified as a missile launch, again.

Note it’s pretty much in the same location. Note also it’s not exactly moving at missile speed.  Note also it’s practically identical to the photos of plane contrails, above.

Same as last time, maybe even the same scheduled flight.

And once again millions of people failed to notice, because from any other angle it looked like what it was, a contrail, from a plane.  Must be a slow news day, as this went all the way up to Jim Miklaszewski asking people at the pentagon about it.

There are occasional flashes of light, which I think are reflections of the sun off a flat surface on the plane.  There’s also portions of the video where a bit of the trail behind the plane seems to glow.  I think thats just the last rays of the setting sun lighting that portion of the trail. See Scott Methvin’s photos, above for how the trail can be oddly lit from minute to minute.

Here’s a better video. You can see after about 0:50 it’s out of the contrail-persisting region of air, and is just leaving a short contrail. It’s also now out of the sun. It looks exactly like the short contrails of a jet coming towards the camera with perspective foreshortening.  The camera crew lost it in the darkness shortly after that.

http://www.necn.com/11/09/10/Mysterious-missile-launched-off-Californ/landing_scitech.html?blockID=348833&feedID=4213

The most likely flight is US Aiways flight 808 from Hawaii to Phoenix.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE808

US Airways flight 808, at around 5PM PST (Sunset)

I snapped the above web image at around 5:05PM today, about the same time as the video was taken yesterday.

Here’s the actual track from the 8th:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE808/history/20101108/1955Z/PHNL/KPHX

And here’s a photo I took (Nov 9th) two minutes earlier from Santa Monica.  I think it’s the same flight, just 24 hours later.  Note that the angle is exactly the same as the Dec 31st contrail that produced the original “missile” story.

Contrail from flight 808

Obviously the video would have to have been taken from way off to the right in this photo (I’m looking South West). The chopper would have been somewhere like Torrance.

[Update again]
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/cameraman-who-filmed-mystery-missile-describes-spectacular-sight.html

The cameraman reports:

Cameraman Gil Leyvas shot video of a luminous point hurtling through the sky followed by a long vapor trail. He said he was aboard the television station’s helicopter shooting footage of the sunset over the ocean about 5:15 p.m when he noticed the spiral-shaped vapor trail and zoomed in to get a better look.

The onboard camera showed a plume twisting up from the horizon and narrowing as it climbed into the sky near Catalina Island, about 35 miles west of Los Angeles, he said.

“Whatever it was, it was spinning up into the sky kind of like a spiral,” and was easy to distinguish from condensation trails from jets, he said. “It was quite a sight to see. It was spectacular.”

I suspect what he saw (which can only be what is on the video, I’d like to see it in HD) is the twisting of the contrails, this can be quite dramatic, especially from such a head-on angle. See this video of a similar perspective, and note the swirling twists in the contrails directly behind the jet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl6iR7w7a_Q

Here’s a grab from that video, showing the twist, and how it as accented by low sun.

Twisting contrails in low sun.

Liem Bahneman gives this excellent description of how flight AWE808 exactly matches the observations, including producing a near identical contrail the next day (which I also photographed, from Santa Monica, above)

This pretty much explains it.

And here’s some excellent points from a real rocket scientist, posting as “Michael”:

I’d like to add to all the evidence above that it was just a jet, because the plume is nothing like a rocket plume to the trained eye. I was a rocket safety inspector for 3 years, have seen countless launches and failures, and have a master’s degree in Astronautical Engineering. Here’s why it’s not a rocket:

It’s too slow (<— biggest reason).
There’s no engine flare.
There’s no expansion of the plume (as the chamber pressure exceeds the atmospheric pressure more and more during flight).
There’s no staging event.
There’s no sunset striations across the plume (which would look like this: http://tinyurl.com/2vklwu5).
In the wide shot there’s two contrails (off each wing!) instead of one.
The plume at the plane is twirling in different directions (very un-rocket-like).
The plume at the plane is twirling too much — that only happens in the case of a motor burn-through, which is a failure mode, meaning it would be seconds from exploding if it were a rocket.
The wind-blown plume is all wrong, vertical plumes go through several different wind shear layers, which makes it look very different than what the video shows.

The apparent direction of the jet is a bit of an illusion, as the trail is greatly distorted by the winds at altitude, which can also vary greatly from place to place. At 37,000 feet the wind can easily be in the 50-100 mph range.

Richard Warren of Los Angeles shot four close-up photos of the trail from a fixed position in Lon Beach. I’ve combined them here into one photo, where you can see the trail move with the wind, and the actual path that the plane takes is much more obviously passing to the south of Long Beach, matching flight 808.

And the fact that it’s a plane is way more apparent once it stops making a contrail (which is due to it moving between two regions of air – it’s colder and/or more humid out to sea than inland)

Richard took a fifth shot at a wider angle that shows the greater context. The jet is still visible as a dark speck (it’s still got a very short contrail). There’s also a very impressive crepuscular “edge” shadow that’s probably cast by part of the contrail that is over the horizon.

711 Comments

  1. InSpace / Nov 9 2010 11:40 pm
    InSpace's avatar

    Of course it was a missile! How do I know? It was the launch that put me in orbit, and I’m posting from 1000ft up!

    *shakes head*

  2. concerned for passengers / Nov 9 2010 11:41 pm
    concerned for passengers's avatar

    The “AWE 808” alleged flight from Honolulu to Phoenix may be a hoax, and anyway, it was slow-flying. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/la-mystery-missile-may-have-been-errant-launch.html The Federal Aviation Administration … did not receive reports of any unusual sightings from pilots who were flying in the area. … After reports of the event, the agency ran radar replays of a large area west of Los Angeles and did not spot any fast-moving, [omit word that complicates conspiracy theory] targets in that area.

    So it’s official from the FAA: the planes in the area at the time were hovering helicopter-style, flying slowly, and they did not have condensation trails (that would have been called “unusual sightings”, since pilots often look behind their planes and almost never see condensation trails). If AWE 808 was a real flight, then 5.5 hours from Honolulu to Phoenix, and ordinary gravity, would have required the plane to fly fast. But the FAA says that there were no fast targets in the area. Which is another Freudian slip: the AWE 808 (which was probably a hoax) was a slow-moving target for the missile.

    So even if AWE 808 did exist, it was blown up by the missile, so it doesn’t exist anymore, and rumours of it landing in Phoenix are just coverup attempts.

    @NoJoe 🙂 My CIA superiors will contact you shortly and tell you where you can send me a suitcase full of 1 million unmarked, used, US dollars to express your gratitude. My PRC superiors will also contact KCBS/KCAL to express their gratitude for having made a laughing stock of the US mainstream media.

  3. Icepick / Nov 9 2010 11:44 pm
    Icepick's avatar

    Thanks for clearing that up, Sups! Or rather, EWW, that’s GROSS! We gotta breathe that air, buster.

  4. rick / Nov 9 2010 11:45 pm
    rick's avatar

    Wow, do I really want to be involved in a democracy with all of these idiots? missile launch, lol

  5. Taxpayer550 / Nov 9 2010 11:47 pm
    Taxpayer550's avatar

    That is NOT an jet aircraft contrail. It is a sub launched missile!

    BTW, jet aircraft exhaust at that altitude does not glow like that.

  6. rick / Nov 9 2010 11:48 pm
    rick's avatar

    ahahaha, Sam your tinfoil hat is slipping off

    I am just a government plant though, too, to discredit you and the guy who made the film Loose Change

  7. koz / Nov 9 2010 11:51 pm
    koz's avatar

    More than likely, this was a hostile sub in U.S. waters.
    The Hush-Hush is because our Navy got caught with it’s pants down.

    Don’t want to upset the natives, you know.

    Anyway, I am sure we will see an emergency return our our illustrious leader REAL soon.

  8. Tim H / Nov 9 2010 11:52 pm
    Tim H's avatar

    Clearly UFO’s. Clearly…

  9. Gary / Nov 9 2010 11:52 pm
    Gary's avatar

    The earth is flat…remember that one …lol so rich

  10. Quatsch / Nov 9 2010 11:53 pm
    Quatsch's avatar

    If it’s simply a contrail the aircraft taking off before and after would have also left a contral.

  11. Mike Bell / Nov 9 2010 11:53 pm
    Mike Bell's avatar

    Maybe it was witches!

  12. Sal M / Nov 9 2010 11:54 pm
    Sal M's avatar

    It’s not a contrail, it looks like a chem-trail. Chem-trail spraying, yet another violation of our rights. Add it to the list of gov’t violations of our right:
    They violate the 1st Amendment by placing protesters in cages, banning books like “America Deceived II” and censoring the internet.
    They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns.
    They violate the 4th and 5th Amendment by molesting airline passengers.
    They violate the entire Constitution by starting undeclared wars for foreign countries.
    Impeach Obama and sweep out the Congress, except Ron Paul.
    (Last link of Banned Book):
    America Deceived II (book)

  13. Dave Alpert / Nov 9 2010 11:55 pm
    Dave Alpert's avatar

    CNN: John Pike, a defense expert who is director of GlobalSecurity.org, said he believes he has solved the mystery.
    “It’s clearly an airplane contrail,” Pike said Tuesday afternoon. “It’s an optical illusion that looks like it’s going up, whereas in reality it’s going towards the camera. The tip of the contrail is moving far too slowly to be a rocket. When it’s illuminated by the sunset, you can see hundreds of miles of it … all the way to the horizon.
    “Why the government is so badly organized that they can’t get somebody out there to explain it and make this story go away … I think that’s the real story,” Pike added. “I mean, it’s insane that with all the money we are spending, all these technically competent people, that they can’t get somebody out there to explain what is incredibly obvious.”

    LA Times: A Pentagon official said that an examination of radar data, satellite imagery and other sophisticated monitoring technology by multiple U.S. government agencies has turned up no conclusive evidence that a missile was fired in that vicinity and at that time.
    Even U.S. agencies that monitor launches of rockets by private individuals or companies had no information of a launch, he said.
    The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, said that FAA records showed commercial airliners were flying in the area at the time, and that most government experts were coming to the conclusion that the condensation trail was caused by an aircraft. “The best we can tell, it was probably caused by an aircraft,” the official said.

  14. vofreason / Nov 9 2010 11:56 pm
    vofreason's avatar

    Sorry to burst your conspiracy theorist bubbles, but it is not a missile or rocket. It is a jet contrail. The “flame” you see is just the light filtered by raleigh scattering passing through the super-saturated gas from the rear of the jet engine.

    If it were a missile, a DSP satellite or the PAVE PAWS radar at Beale would have picked it up, and the military would be in a frenzy. Alas, they are not.

  15. Fish_Kungfu / Nov 9 2010 11:56 pm
    Fish_Kungfu's avatar

    So if it’s a contrail, then tell us exactly what flight it was.

  16. NoJoe / Nov 9 2010 11:57 pm
    NoJoe's avatar

    Concerned for Passengers –

    I was about to type “Pretty sure AWE-808 is a real flight… yadda yadda yadda”

    But then I continued reading your post…

    I’m laughing too hard to answer my phone right now, so I think I’ll take a quick break from work! 🙂

    High five!

    🙂

    –NoJoe

  17. john davidson / Nov 9 2010 11:59 pm
    john davidson's avatar

    wow,, plenty of nuts out there,, lets start another new one and get all these nuts going,

    its a ufo !,, they are covering it up with fake stories about chemtrails and jets.

    lol

  18. BED / Nov 10 2010 12:00 am
    BED's avatar

    “Uh question for all you contrail believers. Can you absolutely with 100% certainty PROVE that it WASN’T a missle? Didn’t thunk so…”

    Bruce – you can’t prove a negative. That’s not possible.

    Idiots.

  19. DvD / Nov 10 2010 12:06 am
    DvD's avatar

    Something to chew on:
    KZLA LOS ANGELES A2832/10 – THE FOLLOWING RESTRICTIONS ARE REQUIRED DUE TO NAVAL AIR WARFARE CENTER WEAPONS DIVISION ACTIVATION OF W537. IN THE INTEREST OF SAFETY, ALL NON-PARTICIPATING PILOTS ARE ADVISED TO AVOID W537. IFR TRAFFIC UNDER ATC JURISDICTION SHOULD ANTICIPATE CLEARANCE AROUND W537 AND CAE 1176. CAE 1155 WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR OCEANIC TRANSITION. CAE 1316 & CAE 1318 WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR OCEANIC TRANSITION. CAE 1177 WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR OCEANIC TRANSITION. W537 ACTIVE, CAE 1176 CLOSED. SURFACE – FL390, 09 NOV 20:00 2010 UNTIL 10 NOV 01:00 2010. CREATED: 08 NOV 20:52 2010

  20. wfr / Nov 10 2010 12:06 am
    wfr's avatar

    Californians! Go out and look! See if it happens again! http://goo.gl/JcYqc

  21. S. Luce / Nov 10 2010 12:09 am
    S. Luce's avatar

    This is not a airplane contrail! Don’t look at the photos, look at the video! This is most likely a short range Scud type “missile test” fired from a North Korean submarine or small ship. They have done this many times before. The last such “missile test” was on the Fourth of July 2009 in the Sea of Japan. This is a message to the United States that North Korea has the capability to hit Los Angeles with a biological weapon, chemical weapon or a dirty bomb. It is very hard to detect a conventional submarine near the surface in a busy shipping area like LA.

  22. chris / Nov 10 2010 12:11 am
    chris's avatar

    It’s not an airplane!!! Ahhh!! Come on guys and gals! The video shows a VERY bright base…and it is moving fast…it’s very far away. I’ve seen missile launches…and this IS A MISSILE. Duh!!

  23. NoJoe / Nov 10 2010 12:12 am
    NoJoe's avatar

    DvD –

    Chewing, chewing, chewing…

    W537 is way north and west of Catalina island. W537 extends west southwest of Santa Barbara, so it’s not really in this area anyway.

    Check out http://www.skyvector.com, search for KLAX, and look for “Warning W537” in blue text out over the ocean on the left side of the chart.

    W537 wouldn’t have affected the flight in the video or US Airways 808. Both were south of W537.

    –NoJoe

  24. Mike / Nov 10 2010 12:15 am
    Mike's avatar

    Can’t they just look at radar imaging of the area at that time? LAX or someone should have it. Check the flight paths of commercial or pvt. jets at the time…any matches? The gov’t must have this info at their disposal.

  25. NoJoe / Nov 10 2010 12:17 am
    NoJoe's avatar

    Mike –

    Yes, US Airways flight 808.

    http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE808/history/20101108/1955Z/PHNL/KPHX

    🙂

    Okay, okay, it’s not a sure thing, but it’s a good candidate!

    –NoJoe

  26. Yes / Nov 10 2010 12:18 am
    Yes's avatar

    Go suck a fucking some fucking dicks all of you faggots

  27. Dayton / Nov 10 2010 12:18 am
    Dayton's avatar

    Well, we finally get to hear directly from the cameraman:

    “Whatever it was, it was spinning up into the sky kind of like a spiral,” and was easy to distinguish from condensation trails from jets, he said. “It was quite a sight to see. It was spectacular.”

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/cameraman-who-filmed-mystery-missile-describes-spectacular-sight.html

    So can we agree it’s not an contrail from a jet? or is the cameraman delusional?

  28. DvD / Nov 10 2010 12:22 am
    DvD's avatar

    NoJoe- if I look from where the video was shot, w537 was directly in flight path of whatever that was.

  29. NoJoe / Nov 10 2010 12:26 am
    NoJoe's avatar

    DvD –

    It is possible. The thing is we don’t know exactly where the video was shot, and in what direction. If the video was looking northwest, then the plane/missile/mystery might have indeed been in or near W537. But it’s hard to tell.

    Considering the lighting is coming from the right of the trail in the videos, the camera was probably pointing south west (the sun would be setting a bit south of due west this time of year, so the trail was further south than that).

    [shrug] Just off the top of my head.

    Also, in regards to the camera-man’s statements, if the trail fooled most of you guys here into thinking it was a missile, couldn’t it fool the camera-man too? The Camera-man is probably no more of a contrail/missile trail expert than any of us are.

    –NoJoe

  30. Marvin the Martian / Nov 10 2010 12:27 am
    Marvin the Martian's avatar

    It was my spaceship. I had to make a quick trip to the moon for some green cheese and toilet paper. Sorry, but I forgot to clear it with Obummer.

  31. purple / Nov 10 2010 12:30 am
    purple's avatar

    Name the plane and problem solved. Detailed records and radar locations are kept of every plane leaving and entering LAX.

  32. Roger Newman / Nov 10 2010 12:30 am
    Roger Newman's avatar

    My brother works at Vandenberg Air Force Base in the radar facility.
    He said that a UFO triggered the launch of a fully armed ICBM and they had to “de-activate it” in mid-flight so that it fell in the ocean.
    It’s a major, major embarrassment for the US military and it begs questions about our lack of control.
    That’s why they aren’t admitting it.

  33. Sam / Nov 10 2010 12:30 am
    Sam's avatar

    Total baloney. Look at the shot of the clouds in the sky. The plume is almost perpendicular to them, shot from a chopper. This proves it was travelling on a rocket trajectory, not a jetliner trajectory. Thanks for proving you are nothing but a shill, as usual your debunking is all too easy to debunk. Thanks for showing us whose side you are on.

  34. Qwopzxnm / Nov 10 2010 12:30 am
    Qwopzxnm's avatar

    Perspective can sometimes be deceiving. I’m agreeing that this was simply a jet contrail.

  35. snerdly / Nov 10 2010 12:30 am
    snerdly's avatar

    So can we agree it’s not an contrail from a jet? or is the cameraman delusional?

    Heh.
    Nah, the disinformation clan will just pooh pooh him away as just another tinfoiler.

  36. Carol / Nov 10 2010 12:31 am
    Carol's avatar

    Oh please. How stupid do you think we the American people are?

  37. DvD / Nov 10 2010 12:33 am
    DvD's avatar

    He was a LA traffic copter(you can see another in the video they shot) so I am assuming to the east of Catalina and somewhere south or a north of LAX- out of the alley. The news sources place the ‘origin’ of the thing right off the east coast of Catalina Island. All that jibing together puts that thing right down the barrel of w537.

  38. George Bush / Nov 10 2010 12:34 am
    George Bush's avatar

    It’s obviously my fault.

  39. Mark / Nov 10 2010 12:35 am
    Mark's avatar

    So if it’s from a jet flying towards the camera, how come you can see the fireball as if you’re looking into the exhaust nozzle? If it is a jet it must have one hell of an afterburner. Plus I’m not an expert but the exhaust in this video looks far more violent (like a rocket) than just jet contrails. It’s almost as if these “experts” have not even seen the video, just the pictures!

  40. Icepick / Nov 10 2010 12:35 am
    Icepick's avatar

    The expert named Pike would be more convincing if he hadn’t madethis statement: “The tip of the contrail is moving far too slowly to be a rocket.”

    As a rocket starts to fly down range its apparent motion to someone on the ground can slow a great deal. That also makes it harder to see the flame as the contrail covers it.

    Without radar evidence from LAX I’m really believing this is just a jet contrail, but Pike made an idiotic comment trying to justify his belief.

  41. NoJoe / Nov 10 2010 12:36 am
    NoJoe's avatar

    Dvd –

    You sure? Double check; Catalina island is quite a ways south east of W537. Check it out on Skyvector, like I mentioned above.

    And so if the mystery object really was near the east coast of Catalina island in the video, that makes an even stronger case for it just being US Airways flight 808. It would have been there at about that time last night.

    Of course, if it’s a missile that was fired at AWE808, then…

    :p

    –NoJoe

  42. Just Me / Nov 10 2010 12:37 am
    Just Me's avatar

    The video trumps the still photo. It does appear to show a rapidly moving object leaving a trail, rather than a plane’s contrail viewed at an odd angle.

  43. Mike / Nov 10 2010 12:37 am
    Mike's avatar

    I’ve just arrived at Loon Lake (thanks) and caught up with the quite entertaining comments here. Now, in spite of all this merriment and frivolity, there are serious matters to attend to.

    First, I demand that all those making strident demands of various parties for this thing and that thing submit a list of their medications, dosages, and frequency, stat. I further demand that we shall then consult the Physician’s Desk Reference for the correct missed dosage recommendations.

    Second, those posting official notices covering dates days before last night, when the jet passed overhead (insert bias disclosure here), and well after it may want to purchase a calendar immediately, if only to avoid further self-embarrassment as you post them willy-nilly around the web. For reference when you’re ordering, 1) we are presently using the Gregorian calendar and 2) yesterday’s date was 8 November 2010.

    Third, might there be an Apollo denier site at which some of you would feel more comfortable? This sciencey stuff doesn’t seem to sit well with some and it fills me with concern for their happiness and well-being.

    I’m not speaking of you, of course, so don’t go reading that into this.

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